Synth or NO synth

[Smitty]

It leaked out and made squares on you floor?

[mayfair]

[kenz]

Oil drain plug? Maybe I'm missing something or they changed it (mines a 1987) but I don't have a plug, just a hose that clamps over a bump on the frame. And it is a dry sump system, so when you shut it down, most of the oil returns to the tank. Maybe it got hot because there wasn't any oil in it? I would think a low oil light should have lit up on the dash or something. 

[spencea15]

Ok stupid question, did you fill it with oil to begin with?  Also do you not check your oil every 500 miles or so?

Something does not sound right. 

[Mitch]

Donny, is that a Fatboy? I thought you had a sporty?

[mayfair]

MOTHA F%*#ER!!!!!



Well, I think I figured it out. I definately learned a lesson thats for sure. 

Like I mentioned before, I drained the oil from the plug, and only drops came out. I'm serious, not even enough to fill a soda bottle cap. Of course, I panicked. I then removed the oil filter, and again, only drops came out. Now I was in severe panic mode!

Tonight, after convincing myself that something must be up with the regular ole 20/50, I went to my local HD store and plunked down $74 bucks for 4 quarts of synth, and oil filter, and a can of engine cleaner (cause the oil filter ALWAYS makes a mess ) I come home, install the new filter, and fill up the oil tank with 3 quarts of synth. The dipstick is now showing that I have oil in my tank, and all is good

I push the bike out of my garage, and fire it up. After about 30 seconds or so, my oil temp gauge/filler cap flies out of my oil tank, and oil is pouring out of the tank. 

I guess the 3 quarts if left undisturbed sits in the bottom of the engine.  I never fired the bike up prior to changing the oil because I assumed that it was empty. There was nothing on the dipstick at all, and even shining a flashlight into the oil tank I could see no oil at all.

    WTF?!?!?!?!   

So now I have / had 6 quarts of oil in my bike. 3 quarts of old dino, and 3 quarts of synth. I syphoned out 2 quarts (cause one is all over my driveway ) and fired the bike back up until hot. I then backed it into the garage and promptly drained the oil out of my bike ( wala, it drains out now ) and removed my filter.

I have a gadget called a puck that you screw on to where the oil filter goes so that when you fire up the bike, it completely drains the old oil out of your bike. You're supposed to do this if you're switching types of oil which I did when I switched from synth to dino a while back. Now I'll do it again since I now have a mixture of both 

So again I'll ask - Dino or Synth?

Ken - The older bikes (like my Sporty which YES AZ, I still have as well) have a rubber type plug that you remove and drain the oil from. My Fatboy has a threaded drain plug right in the frame similar to one that you'd find in a car.

[Buzzy]

Donny my man, that whole post was confusing!
I am still not sure what you just said but I do not see how your engine can hold 3 quarts of oil and nothing shows on the dipstick and nothing comes out when you pull the drain plug??? But yet you say the oil was still in the engine? How is this possible?
I can understand a certain amount being not able to drail completely. My bike for example holds 4 quarts but around 1/4 to 1/2 quart stays in the engine.

If it were me? I would pull ALL the oil out of that bike and hand measure every drop that comes out to know for sure what is going on here and how much oil is actually there.

[mayfair]

I don't get it either Buzz. I'm so  pissed. Either tonight or tomorrow I'm going to pick up some more oil and do the change again. When I tell you that oil was spouting out of the oil tank, I mean spouting!! It shot my oil cap clear away from the bike.

I assumed that a sitting bike would have all of the oil sitting at the bottom of the bike and removing the drain plug would release all of the oil. If it didn't, removing the oil filter with the bike tilted toward the floor (on it's kickstand) you would think would drain what was left in the engine. Removing both the drain plug as well as the oil filter got me a total of about 2 soda bottle caps of oil.

I think I'm starting to understand it a little though, as phucked up as the design is.

I THINK that when the bike has been sitting, the oil collect at the very bottom of the crankcase and just sits there.

I also think that THAT is why you are supposed to warm up the bike before changing the oil!
I had assumed that the reason that they wanted you to warm up the bike prior to changing the oil was to warm up the oil itself making it easier/quicker to drain (similar to OUR oil changes in our trucks).

I NOW think that the true reason for warming up the bike is to get the oil out of the crankcase, and back up to the oil tank via the oil return line.

It all KINDA makes sense to me now, however I'm still a little stumped as to why oil didn't come out of the oil filter unless it too sits just high enough above the crankcase. Thinking about it some more, I believe it does as the Puck that I'll be using requires me to screw it on to where the oil filter goes, and once my old oil is flushed out, I'm to remove the Puck and install the filter. I've already used the Puck, and I'm now remembering that hardly any oil came out of the oil filter area after removing the Puck.

Here's the site:
http://www.roguechopper.com/index.html

It's all starting to make sense to me, however I REALLY REALLY wish there was a way to check to see if there is oil in a bike prior to fireing it up! Removing the oil tank cap and not seeing ANY oil in there is scary as sheet!

All in all, I learned a couple of lessons here.

1. I learned that you MUST fire up the bike prior to doing an oil change as well as prior to checking the oil

2. I also learned what it feels like to be Rich, and what it feels like to throw away perfectly good oil

[kenz]

What gets me, and it might be cause your bike is newer, but the oil should have been in the tank and not in the motor. When you pull the cap off the tank you should see the oil. It should also register on the stick. To have all that oil stay in the motor doesn't sound right to me. Weather mine its running or not, I have a full oil tank. Your situation sounds like, compared to your truck engine, when off the oil is all up into the motor and none in the pan, which isn't right. 

[mayfair]

What gets me, and it might be cause your bike is newer, but the oil should have been in the tank and not in the motor. When you pull the cap off the tank you should see the oil. It should also register on the stick. To have all that oil stay in the motor doesn't sound right to me. Weather mine its running or not, I have a full oil tank. Your situation sounds like, compared to your truck engine, when off the oil is all up into the motor and none in the pan, which isn't right. 

I hear ya, it's phucked up IMO, but looking at this pic you can kinda see where it all sits



In the pic it shows the oil tank right next to the engine, when in reality the oil tank sits above it (similar to your valve cover), so when the engine oil settles, it settles in the crankcase (similar to your oil pan in your truck). At the very bottom of the crankcase there IS a allen bolt, however you are never supposed to remove it as doing so can crack the casing. Apparently it is put there for use during the assembly of the engine and is held in place with red loctite. Stupid I know. I just wish that Harley had a way to check the oil in a cold engine. I was nervous as hell when I pulled the stick and didn't see anything.

Anyway ...

Last night I picked up 3 more quarts of Synth 3. I'm going to try it again. I spoke in depth to a mechanic up at the dealer, and he told me that the injected bikes tend to run hotter, however he couldn't explain why my bike seemed to run cooler running Dino oil. He suggested getting an oil cooler, however everyone that I've talked to before about oil coolers told me that they are a waste of money and that they do nothing.

We'll see ...

[Haggret]

I've had people tell me the same thing about the oil coolers.  But, after reading a few articles about how Harleys tend to overheat while sitting still or moving real slow I did install one.  I can tell you that it does help with dissipating the heat.  Now it is not perfect my bike will still heat up if I sit still too long.  But with the cooler versus without the cooler, it does take longer to heat up.  And, it cools back down a lot quicker when you start rolling again.

[mayfair]

Hmmm ... Perhaps I'll look into it then.