Dodge Owner Forums
Dodge Trucks => Cummins Diesel Trucks => 5.9L Tech => Topic started by: burban2002 on October 18, 2008, 12:56:49 am
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Jo what year is your truck? When did you put an EB on it?
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I have an 06. We put the Jake Brake on forever ago :lol:
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whoops :doh: I've been thinking about one of those, but do you think they are worth the dough?
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Burban ~ gonna split this so we don't Hijack the other guys thread :D
Anyhow....Do I love my Jake yes I do.
Back in June we were driving cross country. Had a 99 Escort on a tow dolly. Had pulled the front drive shaft so we were in permanent 2 wheel drive. Coming through Oregon we hit 6" of snow (yes I said JUNE). Ever few feet there was a car or truck off in the ditch. We were very limited on options and had to just slow it down and make it up. Every time the brakes were actually touched the back of the truck would try to slide out from under the dolly. But with the Jake on the truck stayed under control and just moved down the pass.
I use it to warm the truck up in the morning. Use to to keep off the actual brakes. It's tied into the tranny control so it is like having tow/haul with OD when it is on.
I think it's BigRiver that has the PacBrake. He speaks highly of his also.
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Cool--I'm glad you did. :cheers:
I saw pacbrake came out with a new one for the 2nd gens that replaces the elbow and dang I want one. Are they pretty loud when it turns on?
Crap I'm gettin myself excited about this and I have rent to pay soon. I better make sure my truck bed is cleaned out for the next month. :helpsmilie:
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hmm let me check my video files...I think I have a couple w/ the Jake on.
It gives it a hiss. Not like the sound a Semi makes.
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the jakes are actuated by air pressure too arent they? Do you have a air tank to go with the compressor?
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I think it's BigRiver that has the PacBrake. He speaks highly of his also.
Yup...........I dig the Pac-Brake on my ride. I leave it on 24/7. I tow occasionally, 5'ver, horse trailer, 20' boat and a 20' utility trailer.
I had it installed at a Campers World for a few years ago around $1400.00 if I remember correctly.
Like Jo mentioned, if anything, it really saves the brake shoes quite a bit of wear.
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x190/Bigriver07/DodgeMega020a.jpg)
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OK I don't have any great pictures of just the Jake...but you can see it behind the turbo
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/lilfroger/R3ribGRO75I/AAAAAAAABX0/RwCErCbAj2s/s400/DSCN2187.JPG)
Here you can see it from under the truck where it feeds into the 5" exhaust
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/lilfroger/SCEXD5tTBcI/AAAAAAAAG3E/vP91Al-0u0E/s400/DSCN2771.JPG)
As soon as the site uploads I'll have a sound clip for you
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Here we go...
first ~ no brake at regular idle
then brake at regular idle
then brake and high idle
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3776064544820976123&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3776064544820976123&hl=en)
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it would sound alot cooler if it sounded like the semis :cho:
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Thanks for postin that frogger. Its not what I expected from an exhaust brake. I could definitely :2cool: live with that
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it would sound alot cooler if it sounded like the semis :cho:
Remember the difference in the equipment though. A Semi Jake Brake opens the exhaust valve during the compression stroke. It is an integral part of the engine. It works by re-routing the compressed air in the cylinders through the exhaust system.
My exhaust brake works after the engine. Just creating back pressure that slow the movement of the engine.
I don't think even our Cummin's are stout enough to handle the pressures created by a full Jake Brake. I watched a clip once where a guy said it would blow the head off a 5.9 (he was from Jacobs and it was on Trucks or something).
It would be cool but Jacobs and Cummin work very closely if there was a way to do it (and a need) they would have done it already.
You're welcome Burban. I love the look I get from ricers when the truck is cold and I have it on stopped at a light. The brake will kick in when ever the truck is stopped and not up to full operating temps. I go from sitting :quote: quietly :quote: at a light to making all sorts of noise at them :lol: windows always roll up and cars tend to move. I had one guy ask me once why I was boosting my turbo at a stop light. After a little chat he went from thinking I was a nut trying to blow up my truck to understanding the value of the equipment.
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Oh yeah and one thing to remember.
A state may not require a muffler on a diesel vehicle for emission reasons. But more than a few have added legislation that requires them for vehicles with exhaust braking systems. Most of them are written in regard to commercial vehicles only so we can normally sneak around them. But it might be worth checking into before dropping the coin only to find yourself on the wrong side of the poo-poo.
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Forget to take the lens cap off the video camera again?
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it late :D I took it last night when he was asking about the sound...hence why I said it was a 'sound' clip :tt2:
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wow... i had no idea thats how they worked on a semi. you learn somethin new every day
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Here have some fun...lots of words and pretty pictures ;)
http://www.jakebrake.com/technology/engine.php (http://www.jakebrake.com/technology/engine.php)
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Damn i got a smart wife :punk: she explained that better than i could .
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Damn i got a smart wife :punk: she explained that better than i could .
I gotta quote that one :winkiss:
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That's wild how when the brake is on it really muffles the sound of the exhaust to a hiss. That's FREAKY !!
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I saw pacbrake came out with a new one for the 2nd gens that replaces the elbow and dang I want one.
I've got the PacBrake elbow replacement on my 01 and won't have another truck without an exhaust brake. If you tow alot then you don't know what you are missing. It is well worth the cost in my opinion. The EB saves your regular brakes so you aren't replacing brake pads and rotors on your vehicle as often AND on your trailer! Not only does it save you $$$ in the long run, it is much safer and there is no brake fade.
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I'm thinking of getting one, but all over town on city streets there are "NO ENGINE BRAKE" signs, that doesn't mean no exhost brake right?
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the exhaust brake will be much quieter than the engine brake.
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I'm thinking of getting one, but all over town on city streets there are "NO ENGINE BRAKE" signs, that doesn't mean no exhost brake right?
They are referring to compression brakes on the big rigs. Perfectly fine to use an exhaust brake.
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The exhaust brake that is installed on our CTD's is different than the engine brake.
There are a few locations that state 'No unmuffled exhaust brake' ... oh ok that one I'm in violation of but they can :tt2: that ticket. Most of those laws are written with conditions for commercial only. So the chance of actually getting stuck w/ a ticket is pretty slim.
Some info from Jacobs Vehicle System:
QUESTION:
I've seen signs posted that say "No Jake Brakes", what does this mean?
ANSWER:
Jake Brake® is a registered trademark of Jacobs Vehicle SystemsTM. The term "Jake Brake" is sometimes incorrectly used to refer to compression release type engine brakes in general. The term correctly refers to all of Jacobs Vehicle Systems retarding products including Jacobs Exhaust Brakes and Jacobs Driveline Brakes as well as Jacobs Engine Brakes. Engine brakes are used extensively on heavy-duty trucks, with diesel engines over 10.0L displacement. When operating it produces a distinctive staccato sound.
When an engine brake is used on a vehicle with a poorly muffled or un-muffled engine exhaust (using straight pipes for example), the sound can be offensive, which is what prompted the sign you saw. You were probably driving through a residential area that is adjacent to the highway. The real problem here is that there are a few trucks that are illegally modified or have defective exhaust systems that has triggered the community's reaction. Most high profile, professional fleets adequately maintain their trucks and equip them with OE quality mufflers to reduce the noise for both the driver and the communities they drive through.
The sign you saw might have unfairly used our trademark, making it brand specific. The term "Jake Brake" also refers to our nearly silent exhaust brakes and driveline brakes, so these signs don't make sense for all Jake Brakes, and don't target the root cause of the problem, which is the illegal exhaust systems some truckers chose to configure their vehicle with.
We would like to know where these "Brand Specific" signs are posted. If you've seen one, please let us know what Route number, City/Town and State you saw the sign by sending an E-mail to: [email protected]. Digital photos are great too!
Thanks!
Info on Noise concerns: (http://www.jakebrake.com/about-us/noise-concerns.php)
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install instructions just in case anyone was wondering :)
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Damn i got a smart wife :punk:
I gotta quote that one :winkiss:
10 years down the road, when you're in the middle of an argument.......don't think for a second that she will forget you said this...and remember the date/time!
:lol:
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When performance comes to mind, I sometimes question whether I should remove my Pac-Brake, E/B and install a 5" system. I currently have a 4" MBRP cat-back system (roadkill kitty), but bear in mind, these exhaust brakes have a flapper in the elbow that will partially close when in operating mode.
When they're not operating, they remain open, but still, there they are. Just their size alone sitting in the elbow must detract from the volume of the elbow and maybe hamper a degree of exhaust gases moving and also create some turbulence.
I don't guess Cumminalong would ever install one of these dudes, but I do enjoy the benefits when I'm towing that monstrosity of a camper down the road.
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the EB has less restriction than you think when open. . .I'd leave it on even with a 5" system and performance mods.
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When performance comes to mind, I sometimes question whether I should remove my Pac-Brake, E/B and install a 5" system. I currently have a 4" MBRP cat-back system (roadkill kitty), but bear in mind, these exhaust brakes have a flapper in the elbow that will partially close when in operating mode.
When they're not operating, they remain open, but still, there they are. Just their size alone sitting in the elbow must detract from the volume of the elbow and maybe hamper a degree of exhaust gases moving and also create some turbulence.
I don't guess Cumminalong would ever install one of these dudes, but I do enjoy the benefits when I'm towing that monstrosity of a camper down the road.
Walt,
Unless you are routinely up in the 2500 RPM, 30+ psi or higher range, I don't think that 4" system or the EB is making a dent in your setup.
You've got plenty of flow in that 4" system until you start maintaining those high RPM / boost levels.
That's where you start pushing the max CFM rating on the 4" pipe.
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I have 4inch with a pac brake, I'm sure it hurts the flow some but the truck seems to run just fine. I'm just on the edge of the limits though. When it is in the 40's and colder the turbo cleans up all the smoke and EGTs are hard to get to 1200, if it is warmer out I can get to 1250ish, if it is hot it is possible to get to 1300+.
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WOW I thought 1300 was the melting point !! :eek:
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1300 psssh!
Ive been there several times - no biggie!
Now - you don't want to be over 1400 for more than a few seconds
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I've only seen 1300 with the pedal to the floor and the edge on 6, and well by the time it gets to 1300 I'm already going way to fast.
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OK R0oster - stop trying to talk me into a new turbo! :argh: :argh:
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OK R0oster - stop trying to talk me into a new turbo! :argh: :argh:
Dude. You have already talked yourself into a new turbo.. You just haven't talked yourself in spending the money.. :whistling:
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Bring it to Rich's !!
:43:
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Bring it to Rich's !!
:43:
There you go. you have plenty of time to order it and get it in before you come down.. ;D
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Bring it to Rich's !!
:43:
There you go. you have plenty of time to order it and get it in before you come down.. ;D
Or in other words ...
:poke: :kumba: :$: :ctd: :$:
:crazy: :bling: :crazy:
:31:
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I've received the same few questions from a bunch of different people about my Jacob Exhaust Brake. So I figured I'd open this back up and put some more good information in here for future reference.
The Jacobs Brake can be purchased through Cummins, Dodge or directly with Jacob Brake:
The following model years are available through
Dodge dealers and Cummins Distributors
Dodge: 1998.5–2002; 2004.5-2006
Cummins: 1989-2006
OEM Engine Application Brake Model Product Name
Dodge-Cummins
B5.9 Dodge Ram TMVO 1989-1998 Jacobs Exhaust Brake®
ISB Dodge Ram TMVO ‘98.5-’02 Jacobs Exhaust Brake®
ISB Dodge Ram TMVO ‘03-’04 Jacobs Exhaust Brake®
ISB Dodge Ram TMVO ‘04.5-’06 Jacobs Exhaust Brake®
Operation:
The Jacobs Brake is turned on via a plunger style switch. It is shaped to be mounted on the gear selector in the automatic vehicles. With the plunger out it's on, in it's off.
When off the Jacobs Brake will not engage under any condition.
When on there are two normal operation conditions:
If the vehicle is not up to normal operating temperature (apx 185) the brake will engage any time the vehicle is over 20-25 mph and the throttle is not engaged.
It will also activate when the vehicle is stopped (vehicle brakes applied). This reduces the amount of time taken for the vehicle to reach normal operating temperatures (very VERY helpful in the winters!)
If the vehicle is up to normal operating temperature the brake will engage any time the vehicle is over 20-25 mph and the throttle is not engaged.
Good things to know:
-Between 20 & 25 mph (mine is right about 22mph but I know my speedo is off a bit) the brake will disengage.
-Because the Jacob Brake connects to the vehicles ECM it will lock and unlock the torque converter along with controlling down and up shifting. (I would highly recommend a double-disk (at least) torque converter; I am pretty confident my Jacobs Brake lead to the early death of my TC.)
-The Jacobs Brake comes pre-drilled and tapped for a EGT probe. Monitoring post turbo EGT's will allow you to protect your Jacobs Brake.
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the brake will engage any time the vehicle is over 20-25 mph and the throttle is not engaged.
Does this mean that it only slows you down to 20-25mph and then shuts off?
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The Jacobs Brake can be purchased through Cummins, Dodge or directly with Jacob Brake:
The following model years are available through
Dodge dealers and Cummins Distributors
Dodge: 1998.5–2002; 2004.5-2006
Is this also a Doghouse item?
:43:
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Yes Donny.
When at speed and I remove my foot from the accelerator the brake will engage. When the vehicle speed reaches 20 ~ 25 MPH it shuts off. The vehicle brakes are then all that is bringing it to a stop.
It has to do with it locking up the TC. If it stayed locked the truck would stall.
The fun part is finding the 'coast' spot. If I aalllmost press the accelerator I can keep the Jake from engaging but still allow the truck to coast. Or I could just reach up and turn it off if I really want to coast with out it coming on. :up:
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Or I could just reach up and turn it off if I really want to coast with out it coming on. :up:
I was just thinking about that.
I think I'd put the rocker switch on the front of the center console so that I could turn it on or off without having to lift my arm.
How's that for lazy?
:43:
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Mine comes on no matter what speed I am going. If I'm going 5MPH and take my foot off the acc. for more than 3 seconds, the PAC brake comes on.
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After I see how my finances sit after Cristmas and all of this other truck stuff, I'm seriously considering getting one of these. I've had it with my brake issues :argh:
Which one - I'm not sure
Any help there?
Also, is this easy enough to be installed at the next GTG?
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Mine was installed in the driveway by one person :up:
I have no doubt the crew here could handle it.
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The toughest part shoud be the compressor but you already have one. All you're doing is removing a piece of exhaust and replacing it with the brake.
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The toughest part shoud be the compressor but you already have one. All you're doing is removing a piece of exhaust and replacing it with the brake.
Would I tee off of the compressor, or the feed from the tank?
I assume that I's just have to tee the line going to my horns, but I'm just checking.
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It would come from your tank. If you have an extra port on the tank you can use that or you could just 't' the line going to your horns. If you 't' the one going to the horns just make sure you do it between the tank and the horn solenoid or else you won't get air pressure to the brake.
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Sweet !!
That sounds pretty simple if that's all there is to it.
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Donny......if your going to go with a Pac Brake.....and I'm not sure about the other brands, you'll have to install the throttle actuator down near the pedal itself. The deal is, when you lift off the pedal, it activates the system.
Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind.
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The Jake ties into the ECM so nothing is needed near the pedal.
Once down fall of the Jake is the stock placement of the actuator is right next to the CP3. So if the ultimate mod plan include a dual CP3 or even a Fass / Air Dog changes will need to be made to the installation to accommodate.
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Donny......if your going to go with a Pac Brake.....and I'm not sure about the other brands, you'll have to install the throttle actuator down near the pedal itself. The deal is, when you lift off the pedal, it activates the system.
Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind.
Near the gas pedal?
I thought it was activated with a switch? :scratch:
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Got me thinking more about it Donny.....I checked the online install manual and took a close look at my rig. There is a device offered for manual transmission rigs, but all I have is a single wire connecting to a plug that is on the pedal housing. Check out page 3 here. It shows the part from PacBrake....which I don't have.
http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5892.PDF (http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5892.PDF)
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I didn't see anything about a foot switch in that diagram Riv.
I was thinking about ( when I get one ) mounting my switch on the front of my center console. That way I can just turn it on / off without having to even lift my arm.
:43:
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Yes, I have a toggle switch to turn the system on and off. But what I was referring to was when it's on, it doesn't necessarily always do it's fluttering thing. Only when I lift my foot off of the accelerator and my speed is over 24 mph, does it engage the air to the PacBrake. When I resume accelerating, it stops.
When I'm on the interstate and towing the pig, and I don't want it activating while going down a hill, I'll hit the toggle switch to turn the system totally off.
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Yeah, I get the idea behind using the toggle switch, you just had me confused with a foot switch.
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I was always told that I had a switch there, but after looking at the photo and then at my accelerator, I see that all that I have is the wire connection. To see the device I was talking about, look on page 3, under the "Mechanical throttle switch groups". In the photo, there is in the foreground a metal bracket bent on a 90degree angle. Connected to that is a horizontal white bar resting against the pedal. That is what I don't have, but thought that I did.
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Yeah I saw that and I didn't think that you did.
Since your hookup is probably different than mine, hopefully Cowboy will chime in again and further explain his hook up. I'm also hoping that since I won't need the compressor and stuff that it'll be fairly inexpensive.
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I know that PacBrake sells just the brake itself. That's how I went about it, since I already had my compressor.
Look for your year app here, maybe it will help.
http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/ (http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/)
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Walt / Donny,
The manual transmission trucks need the pedal switch, it's the ECM bypass.
The automatic trucks don't use it.
:up:
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I know that PacBrake sells just the brake itself. That's how I went about it, since I already had my compressor.
Look for your year app here, maybe it will help.
http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/ (http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/)
HA !!
I was feelin pretty good about the install until I saw the diagram on page 12
http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5855.PDF (http://www.pacbrake.com/PDF/L5855.PDF)
:puke:
:lol:
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Looks like trip down south for the 2nd Annual G2G to see the electrical wizard....aka noplugs.
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Looks like trip down south for the 2nd Annual G2G to see the electrical wizard....aka noplugs.
:lol: That's what i was thinkin !! :lol:
Unfortunately, since they're size specific and I'm still runnin the stock downpipe, I guess i should move up to the 4" exhaust
:$:
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I'm still up in the air with the deciding on which one I wantt o go with, probably just going to get a 5" E-brake with <> on either side of my current 4" exhaust, so when/if (probably when) I go with a bigger exhaust I won't have it as a restriction...
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5" :scratch:
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5" :scratch:
Yes, the inline comes as a 5". It comes with (2) 4" reducers.
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I'm fixin to hook mine up soon..... Much simpler set up on a third gen Donny. ;D
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Much simpler set up on a third gen Donny. ;D
:fu:
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I'm just sayin'.....
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First of frog, I believe you have a 'Jacobs Exhaust brake', not a "Jake Brake". :poke: :tt2: :lol:
With that out of the way, the Pac Brake is the brand that is factory installed if I remember right. There are other brands to consider. Nothing against the Pac Brake (excellent quality product) and according to my dealer recommended by Cummins and Dodge plus sold thru the dealer. Since my '05 wasn't offered new with a brake, I have been looking into one myself. I have been reading up on the D-CELERATOR from US GEAR.
http://www.usgear.cc/dcelerator.htm (http://www.usgear.cc/dcelerator.htm)
The company is well known in the RV world, especially for there tow brakes and under/over drive transmissions. Reading in there FAQ area this one is inline mounted and activated by a switch. From what I understand it has nothing to do with the throttle pedal, it is solely controlled by the driver. They say installation time is 2-3 hours in the driveway. This link has some good info on exhaust brakes as a whole.
http://www.usgear.cc/dcel_faq.htm (http://www.usgear.cc/dcel_faq.htm)
I really like what I'm reading on this product, but haven't made up my mind yet. Still want to research the other ones yet. But I like what I see so far. Got a trip planned out west this summer, so I got 'till june to decide.
EDIT:---I am wrong. The Jacobs is factory stock not the Pac Brake. My bad. :ph:
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When it comes right down to it the actual workings of every exhaust brake are the same, a butterfly valve in the exhaust pipe. The Jacobs uses vacuum to actuate it and the Pac uses air pressure. From a quick scan of the US Gear site it looks like theirs are either electrically or pneumatically operated. Same same any way you slice it.
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This is what intrigued me about looking into the US GEAR version...
"What makes the D-Celerator exhaust brake different from all the others?
The most unique feature of the D-Celerator is the patented waste-gate bypass port which regulates back pressure. This means that when the exhaust brake is engaged, the D-Celerator closes off the exhaust system 100%. To avoid building up too much pressure, other brands regulate back pressure with orifices (holes) which only close the butterfly only 75-80%. This means that they can't build much pressure at lower RPMs.The Waste-Gate Advantage
Since the D-Celerator exhaust brake bleeds off excess pressure through the waste gate, the D-Celerator will give you braking performance at lower RPMs while protecting the engine from over-pressure at higher RPMs. This feature is similar to the waste-gate on a turbocharger. (Click on the thumbnail image of the graph to view the full-size chart representing the benefit of a wasted-gated exhaust brake.)"
http://www.usgear.cc/waste_gate.htm (http://www.usgear.cc/waste_gate.htm)
Have no way to prove if this is true/beneficial or not, still researching. But as was mentioned earlier its an inline mount, and comes in sizes from 2.5" to 4". So for Donny's application it would be a direct bolt on for his 3.5" exhaust. Although moving up to a nice 4" system would help overall also. :up: But you are right Nick, except for a few small details they all work about the same way to achieve the same goal.
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The description isn't quite accurate from them.
Orifice, wastegate, TOWmato, TOEmato......it the same crap.
The Pac-Brake has a seperate valve in the butterfly that acts as the "wastegate".
Sounds like nothing more than creative advertising......unless of course we get a chance to do a side by side. ;D
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Not sure what brand I will wind up with, and not ever having one in hand I have no clue which one is better than the other. I would surmise that one couldn't really go wrong with whatever brand they wind up with. But I do have an idea. If I do wind up with this brand, and if I can make it down in March (big if, as most of my summer vacation time is being burned up as I speak :argh: ), maybe we can install it at that time or just study it to compare against the others. A few of you have detailed experience working with the Pac Brake on walt's truck, and possibly the Jacob's that is standard equipment on the new trucks. As for a comparison test, I don't know how to come up with one, other than putting a "test mule" in the passenger seat, speeding up, let off the throttle and see what kind of impact we get. :lol:
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If you go with the US Gear I would go with the pneumatic actuator verses the electric. I could see the actuator getting cooked sitting right near the exhaust like it does. And Rich is correct the Pac uses a spring loaded valve in the butterfly that keeps exhaust bp under control. In fact the wording is almost exactly the same as you quoted from the US gear site...... :up: