Dodge Owner Forums

Dodge Trucks => Cummins Diesel Trucks => 5.9L Tech => Topic started by: Scott91370 on October 25, 2008, 01:55:40 am

Title: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 25, 2008, 01:55:40 am
Last week my tach intermitantly stopped working, it's still doing it.  When it does power drops, dramatically!
I show 3 codes:
P0122 Throttle Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Low Input
P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor 1 Circuit, or No Vehicle Speed Reference Signal 1
P1693 Turbo Charge Control Circuit Malfunction

When I took it to AutoZone the guy said it read these codes and gave me the print out:
P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0380 Glow Plug/Heater Circuit "A" Malfunction

Is there any reason the odometer readout would not show all the codes?  And would any of the 3 codes I show keep the tach from working correctly?

Thanks!
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: jakebrake on October 25, 2008, 02:07:45 am
camshaft code would cause that. Good luck getting to that thing. Its between the vp44 and the engine block. not sure why it wouldnt display the other codes.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Justviper1 on October 26, 2008, 06:39:22 am
The P0380 could be as simple as a dirty connection.  I had this code and at the intake heater relay on the driverside fender there are two relays and the wires on both of mine were dirty and corroded how ever only one relay wouldn't work.  Cleaned everything up and now it is good to go.  I went all last winter with only one intake heater working and I had the truck in 20 and below temps without being able to plug it in.  Started just fine! 
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Justviper1 on October 26, 2008, 06:40:38 am
Jake don't they say to replace those while you are replacing the VP just as precaution so you don't have to try to squeeze in there with the new pump in?
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: jakebrake on October 26, 2008, 06:54:18 pm
yep well worth the cost of a sensor when you have the vp44 out.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 27, 2008, 01:51:54 am
Ir does appear it may be a fun little job.  On bolt holding it in, but I can't see it.  I'll be driving the car for a while sone gas is a lot cheaper now and it gets almost double the milage.  I'll let you guys know how long it takes to replace, when I get to it.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: mayfair on October 27, 2008, 10:08:24 pm
I just last year replaced my cam sensor. i tried to do it myself, but I couldn't do it. I wound up taking it to the dealer and they did it for me for i think it was 80 bucks. Money well spend if you ask me. I tried for over an hour just to get the socket on the sensor and I couldn't do it. My biggest fear was that i was going to get the old one out, and not be able to thread the new one in.

Good luck !!
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Motorbrreath on October 29, 2008, 01:10:41 am
Mil On. Tach Inoperative. Codes P0341, P0215, P1689, P1690. Check Cam Sensor Operation.;When codes p0341, p0215, p1689 and p1690 set do p0341 diagnostics. You may find that sensor voltages (map, apps, oil pressure, cam and crank sensors) on a 24 valve diesel engine differ from what you may be used to seeing. The reference voltage should be about 5 volts, the signal wire 0 volts and sensor ground. On 2001 & 2002 models with P0341, p0215, p1689 and P1690 setting or the tachometer is dropping out, monitor the cam sensor (CMP) signal with the DRBIII. Verify the signal is constant/steady. Inspect the cam sensor wiring. Repair wiring or replace the sensor as needed. If cam sensor and circuit check ok, inspect for excessive camshaft endplay. The end play specification is 0.006 -0.010 inch. If camshaft endplay is out specification, the camshaft gear assembly must be replaced. Reference the 2002 powertrain manual, pg #169. Test #1, measure the AC noise on battery voltage to ECM, is the voltage above 25mVrms? (Possible electrical noise from the Transfer pump). If codes 1690 and or 1689 are setting load test the injection pump power and ground at the injection pump connector using a head light as a load.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 29, 2008, 02:01:30 am
I understood abpout half that.   :P   I did look at the wiring and during the minor visual it looked good.

The thing I am worried about is that I'll replace the sensor and it'll be something different.  But without the DRBIII it's hard to monitor the sensor.  And I sure hope it isn't cam gear.

I think I may just get rid of this thing before something serious happens. Like the tranny- again...  :argh:
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Justviper1 on October 29, 2008, 03:44:58 am
How many miles are on it?  Don't give up yet.  I have been discouraged a lot with mine but in the end once everything is running good and you lean into it and feel the the big green monster come alive there is no better reward!
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: burban2002 on October 29, 2008, 04:16:16 am
I doubt its a cam gear--they are pretty stout.  I think what those guys said is right--swap out that bad boy and you should be good to go for another 100K :up:
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Motorbrreath on October 29, 2008, 04:37:38 am
 :smartass:
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: jakebrake on October 29, 2008, 05:51:15 am
hell you just got about every known problem fixed on your truck, dont sell it now over a $100 sensor.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 29, 2008, 09:51:23 pm
Ain't that the truth and it's only a $60 sensor...  ;D

The only reason I say I may get rid of it is because it's 'winter' and I won't be towing the boat.  But honestly, the way prices on trucks have dropped in the last year I couldn't pay it off if I sold it.


Truck just turned 200,000.
(http://www.ccdofw.org/Image000.jpg)
Notice the charging system gauge & temp gauge vs. the tach.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: mayfair on October 29, 2008, 09:55:37 pm
Scott, if I were you ( and I was once ), I'd save myself a LOT of aggravation, bite the bullet, and let the dealer do this job. Yeah, you'll pay for an hour of their time, however you'll easily spend 4+ hours on trying to do it yourself. It's a REAL PITA !! Dave can get you the sensor, and then you just take it with you to the dealer and let them install it.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Kilch123 on October 29, 2008, 10:10:41 pm
Scott,

Looking at your original post, I don't think that the engine position sensor is the cause of your problems.  Looking at the causes of the codes all point to voltage problems (plus the charge light illuminated on the dash).  I think this is either a harness, plug or maybe even a module problem (ecm/pcm) Hopefully not.

I need to sign off right now to go to a viewing, but I'd like to research this some more, and possibly help locate the problem

I'll PM you tomorrow, once I get a chance to look deeper

Tom
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: mayfair on October 29, 2008, 10:24:19 pm
Tom, what he is describing is exactly what mine was doing. Once I replaced the sensor, everything was fine.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: jakebrake on October 30, 2008, 12:56:19 am
Scott,

Looking at your original post, I don't think that the engine position sensor is the cause of your problems.  Looking at the causes of the codes all point to voltage problems (plus the charge light illuminated on the dash).  I think this is either a harness, plug or maybe even a module problem (ecm/pcm) Hopefully not.

I need to sign off right now to go to a viewing, but I'd like to research this some more, and possibly help locate the problem

I'll PM you tomorrow, once I get a chance to look deeper

Tom

If all the codes were coming active at the same time then yeah I'd say that too. But looking at the wiring diagram, the camshaft position sensor has its own 5v and ground to the ecm. It doesnt share the same 5v ref and common ground that the EOP, IAT, ECT, WIF, and MAP do. Just thinking those other codes were i/a from a while ago and the Cam code is the one coming up right now. Be nice if you could pull a time stamp on the codes though.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 30, 2008, 01:55:55 am
The only code being thrown now is the p0381.  And the light is the check engine not the charge light. But if you do have any other ideas I'd be glad to listen.

Mayfair, I may take it in.  I also have a friend that does a lot of work on trucks so he may do it for me.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Justviper1 on October 30, 2008, 04:43:48 am
Before you said that the code was the p0380.  If it is that one then all you have to do is clean the wires on the relays for the intake grid heaters.  It is a real simple fix.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on October 30, 2008, 03:08:02 pm
Got them mixed together.  It's p0341.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Kilch123 on October 30, 2008, 03:12:57 pm
with just the one code, then it probably is the sensor

multiple codes before had me looking elsewhere...
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on December 28, 2008, 07:56:19 pm
Weather is perfect for working on the truck so I have decided to take on this little priject. 
Found the sensor with no problem.  Got the bolt out with no problem (it is a hex-5.0mm(allen head)). The new one is threaded all the way from the tip to the stop so I started to turn.  It hits the block!!  Does anybody know if it is supposed to plull straight out?  :argh:  The Manual says:
Quote
REMOVAL - DIESEL
The camshaft position sensor (CMP) is located
below the fuel injection pump (Fig. 9). It is attached
to the back of the timing gear cover housing.
(1) Disconnect both negative cables from both batteries.
(2) Clean area around CMP.
(3) Disconnect electrical at CMP (Fig. 9).
(4) Remove CMP mounting bolt. Bolt head is
female-hex (Fig. 10).
(5) Remove CMP from engine by twisting and pulling
straight back.
(6) Discard CMP o-ring (Fig. 10).

It's tough to get a hold of and I don't want to break it and not be able to remove it. 

Thanks!!

Oh, and as much as I would love to take pics, that's not happening unless the engine is out or I cut out a section of the fender.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Cumminalong on December 28, 2008, 08:06:38 pm
Why don't you just take out the inner fender liner?

Makes getting to everything on the side of the engine much easier.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Kilch123 on December 28, 2008, 08:26:15 pm
the sensor should pull out after remoing the bolt (it has an o-ring on it, and that's probably what's holding you up)

See Picture attached
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on December 28, 2008, 09:43:28 pm
Ok after a little thinking we took a piece of twine, wrapped it around the connection part of the sensor and POP!  It came right out.  If I didn't have trouble with it being in so tight it would have been a 15 minute job.
But a little bad news. There is oil on the old one.  I am going to guess there is a bad gasket in there somewhere.  I'll also bet the sensor isn't bad, but the oil was causing it not to read prperly.
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Kilch123 on December 28, 2008, 11:39:30 pm
It functions in an area that has oil splashing around - oil on the sensor is normal - that's why it has the o-ring - to keep the oil in
Title: Re: CEL & Tach stops working
Post by: Scott91370 on December 29, 2008, 12:02:09 am
That's good to hear.  Now that I think about it, that;s how my mifes suv and my old Nissan truck were.  I was thinking of my car, which has a crappy belt, and oil there is a bad thing.

Thanks for all the help and input guys!